Discussion:
Alexander's Good Points
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David Amicus
2020-12-16 22:18:09 UTC
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Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

Other?
David Amicus
2020-12-16 22:25:18 UTC
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Ed Cryer
2020-12-17 09:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
David Amicus
2020-12-17 16:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
Ed Cryer
2020-12-18 09:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking to
someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named after him.

In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came their
way.

You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to Diogenes
the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

Ed
John W Kennedy
2020-12-18 16:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking to
someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came their
way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to Diogenes
the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in the
night and GET them.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Ed Cryer
2020-12-18 18:36:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking to
someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to Diogenes
the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in the
night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.

Ed
John W Kennedy
2020-12-19 19:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
the night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.
That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
Гро́зный​.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Ed Cryer
2020-12-19 21:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
the night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.
That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
Гро́зный​.
Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of
language.

Ива́н = Ivan
Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.

Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.

Never Ива́н великий or отличный
unlike
Александер отличный
--
Ed
John W Kennedy
2020-12-20 19:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
the night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.
That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
Гро́зный​.
Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of
language.
Ива́н = Ivan
Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.
Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.
Never Ива́н великий or отличный
unlike
Александер отличный
I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.

And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
(which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after
over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Ed Cryer
2020-12-21 12:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
the night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.
That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
Гро́зный​.
Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of
language.
Ива́н = Ivan
Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.
Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.
Never Ива́н великий or отличный
unlike
Александер отличный
I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.
And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
(which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after
over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.
“Terrible” has suffered a pretty large meaning shift since it was first
used of Ivan. How about “Scary Ivan”?

Is your Iskander actually Alexander? What are Desi children?
--
Ed
John W Kennedy
2020-12-21 20:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
the night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.
That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
Гро́зный​.
Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of
language.
Ива́н = Ivan
Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.
Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.
Never Ива́н великий or отличный
unlike
Александер отличный
I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.
And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
(which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after
over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.
“Terrible” has suffered a pretty large meaning shift since it was first
used of Ivan. How about “Scary Ivan”?
“Awesome” seems to be the usual.
Post by Ed Cryer
Is your Iskander actually Alexander? What are Desi children?
I am not a scholar of Indian folklore, but this is what I have been told.

In Hindi, and in Indian English, “Desi” means “local”. In English
outside of India, it means “of Indian-subcontinent origin”. I don’t know
about other locations, but in New Jersey, where there are several
south-Asian colonies, the word is common, used to avoid the difficulties
that arise with “Indian” and “Pakistani”.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Ed Cryer
2020-12-22 12:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Post by Ed Cryer
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that
Alexander did
like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I
suppose, to
general Ptolemy.
--
Ed
I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.
I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
after him.
In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
their way.
You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
philosophers;
https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr
On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
the night and GET them.
You probably misheard for Ivan.
That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
Гро́зный​.
Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of
language.
Ива́н = Ivan
Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.
Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.
Never Ива́н великий or отличный
unlike
Александер отличный
I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.
And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
(which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after
over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.
“Terrible” has suffered a pretty large meaning shift since it was first
used of Ivan. How about “Scary Ivan”?
“Awesome” seems to be the usual.
Post by Ed Cryer
Is your Iskander actually Alexander? What are Desi children?
I am not a scholar of Indian folklore, but this is what I have been told.
In Hindi, and in Indian English, “Desi” means “local”. In English
outside of India, it means “of Indian-subcontinent origin”. I don’t know
about other locations, but in New Jersey, where there are several
south-Asian colonies, the word is common, used to avoid the difficulties
that arise with “Indian” and “Pakistani”.
It's probably this new Russian missile;
https://bit.ly/2LOK70T

Ed

Ed Cryer
2020-12-19 21:54:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Amicus
Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.
Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
came out of Jerusalem to greet him.
Other?
There’s something about Alexander that always comes up in ancient and
modern accounts. I particularly liked Mary Renault’s ‘’The Nature of
Alexander”. And that’s what we call “charisma”. He led from the front;
always in the front rank, be it on a horse or first over the walls of a
city. And he won, time after time, against great odds.
Those rough Macedonians followed him for 10 years before wanting to go home
again.
And he appears to have regarded himself as divine; son of Zeus, like
Achilles reborn.
A kind of gay icon (very modern interpretation, I know, but just look at
all the statues with the long blond hair and the head tilted).
Pericles, Caesar, Napoleon all had a charisma, but A had a divine charisma.

He must have regarded himself as unbeatable; right at the top of humanity.
Educated by Greece’s greatest philosopher, never lost a battle, avenged
historical defeats, got to the ends of the earth and complained that there
weren’t enough worlds to conquer.

Charisma. A winner supreme. Had he been a Roman emperor they would have
awarded him “divus divus divus ....” post mortem.
--
Ed
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