Plato vs. Aristotle

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Who was more anti-auhority?

Also, could Aristotle be thought of as more being about verification, whereas Plato was more about justification?:

- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.

Thomas Huxley

[John W Kennedy]

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Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

There is far more of paronomasia than of philosophy about that.

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Post by John W Kennedy

Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

There is far more of paronomasia than of philosophy about that.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

What I meant was that Aristotle was more about verification of the external, whereas Plato was more about justification by the unverifiable, i.e., the internal imaginations of the mind especially when it came to envisioning a more perfect society as expressed artificially by the establishment of rules, creation of hierarchies and the defining of obligations?

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

~Plato was concerned with mostly forms and not objects and believed that you couldnt find truth in the world because it resides in Forms.
~Aristotle was concerned with objects and believed that truth was found within the world around.

~Plato believed that if something is true, it must always be true.
~Aristotle believed that something doesnt have to always be true, to be true in particular.

~Plato believed truth = something abstract.
~Aristotle believed that truth = something concrete.

~Plato is idealistic
~Aristotle is a realist

https://quizlet.com/51273560/philosophy-unit-1-test-flash-cards/

[Ed Cryer]

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

~Plato was concerned with mostly forms and not objects and believed that you couldnt find truth in the world because it resides in Forms.
~Aristotle was concerned with objects and believed that truth was found within the world around.
~Plato believed that if something is true, it must always be true.
~Aristotle believed that something doesnt have to always be true, to be true in particular.
~Plato believed truth = something abstract.
~Aristotle believed that truth = something concrete.
~Plato is idealistic
~Aristotle is a realist
https://quizlet.com/51273560/philosophy-unit-1-test-flash-cards/

William James, brother of Henry James, first taught psychology and then
philosophy. He made his name with "pragmatism"; became a kind of apostle
of it. And if you read his books, you'll find that most end with
religion. That's how he used pragmatism; religion works, therefore it is
true.
He also wrote "The Varieties of Religious Experience";
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Varieties-Religious-Experience-Study-Nature/dp/1439297274
and I think I know which one he'd had personally.

Plato always strikes me as having had some religious experience. And
then endeavoured to account for it philosophically, at least in his
earlier books. It colours his personality.

Aristotle, on the other hand, shows none of that; his "first mover" is
purely intellectual.

Ed

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

According to this:

- Similarly, while Plato was concerned in The Republic to build a complex picture of an ideal state, Aristotle was more concerned with a search for the best constitution possible in specific circumstances.

"http://global.oup.com/uk/orc/politics/intro/garner3e/student/keythinkers/aristotle/"

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

Wouldn't Plato have agreed with this?:

- ...Human excellence, intellectual and other, lies not in curious exploration of the world around us but in a right use and ordering of our own rational faculties.

https://books.google.com/books?id=7fY2eCEFkKgC&pg=PA278&dq=%22Human+excellence,+intellectual+and+other%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFksjEyJvRAhVW_WMKHSEIDKEQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=%22Human%20excellence%2C%20intellectual%20and%20other%22&f=false

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

Wouldn't Aristotle have agreed with this?:

- ...Plebeian enthusiasm for the truth of reality...nothing was recognized as truth except the science that described reality.

https://books.google.com/books?id=w9nDF2hsN1oC&pg=PA88&dq=%22plebeian+enthusiasm+for+the+truth+of+reality%22+%22nothing+was+recognized+as+truth+except+the+science+that+described+reality.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-tK21vJPbAhVKwVQKHdvqBgQQ6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=%22plebeian%20enthusiasm%20for%20the%20truth%20of%20reality%22%20%22nothing%20was%20recognized%20as%20truth%20except%20the%20science%20that%20described%20reality.%22&f=false

[Ed Cryer]

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Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

- ...Plebeian enthusiasm for the truth of reality...nothing was recognized as truth except the science that described reality.
https://books.google.com/books?id=w9nDF2hsN1oC&pg=PA88&dq=%22plebeian+enthusiasm+for+the+truth+of+reality%22+%22nothing+was+recognized+as+truth+except+the+science+that+described+reality.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-tK21vJPbAhVKwVQKHdvqBgQQ6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=%22plebeian%20enthusiasm%20for%20the%20truth%20of%20reality%22%20%22nothing%20was%20recognized%20as%20truth%20except%20the%20science%20that%20described%20reality.%22&f=false

Well over 200 years ago Immanuel Kant wrote that metaphysics, which had
once been the queen of the sciences, was largely moribund.
And I don't think even he did much to turn it around with his
"Copernican revolution".
Physics, chemistry, astronomy (the empirical sciences) are in the
vanguard; and philosophy has been tailoring its tune, following behind.

Ed

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

Could Plato have believed that people are better off sticking to the straight and naroow?

Whereas did Aristotle believe that we should shouldn't let the limits of the straight and narrow blind us to the possibility of leeway which would allow man greater room to express himself in the way of creativity, originality and imagination?

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

According to this:

- Whereas Aristotle sees good and virtue as at least in part relative and varying for different people and different situations, Plato argues that the good is an unqualified ultimate in and of itself.

https://books.google.com/books?id=4cJOCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA54&dq=%22Whereas+Aristotle+sees+good+and+virtue+as+at+least%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRgaSq5vLeAhUQFXwKHdyjCpcQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=%22Whereas%20Aristotle%20sees%20good%20and%20virtue%20as%20at%20least%22&f=false

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

Does this describe a difference between Aristotle and Plato?:

- ...One is a broadly secular view rooted in attitudes about human nature and the human condition; the other is a broadly transcendental view which locates the source of moral value outside the human realm.

https://philpapers.org/rec/GRAWIG

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

Could it be said that Plato was more intuitive (inward oriented) and more into ideals (which tend to be artificial) whereas Aristotle was more into the investigation of the external world trying to see if he could find models and patterns of reality?

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=657&ei=Fr6kXI6WAcfKswXzuKyADg&q=%22difference+between+plato+and+aristotle%22&oq=%22difference+between+plato+and+aristotle%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.53951.68128..68301...1.0..2.283.7638.5j47j4......0....1..gws-wiz.......33i10j33i299j0i8i7i30j0i7i5i30j0i7i30j0i20i263j35i39j0i131j0i30j0i7i10i30j0i131i67j0i10j0i13.dhrwMulQf2k

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

https://blog.obiaks.com/190417112630/Comparing-the-Similarities-and-Differences-Between-Plato-and-Aristotle.html

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On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 5:28:22 PM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com

Post by g***@gmail.com
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

https://blog.obiaks.com/190417112630/Comparing-the-Similarities-and-Differences-Between-Plato-and-Aristotle.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=WP-d4hL05g4C&pg=PA17&dq=%22where+plato+insisted%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_oei_3qvtAhULKuwKHeFrCWgQ6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=%22where%20plato%20insisted%22&f=false

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On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 5:28:22 PM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com

Post by g***@gmail.com
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

https://blog.obiaks.com/190417112630/Comparing-the-Similarities-and-Differences-Between-Plato-and-Aristotle.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=WP-d4hL05g4C&pg=PA17&dq=%22where+plato+insisted%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_oei_3qvtAhULKuwKHeFrCWgQ6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=%22where%20plato%20insisted%22&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=z8Flb0gZ3ZkC&pg=SA12-PA21&dq=%22where+plato%22+aristotle&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU9eKzgKztAhUSqaQKHYOxBoYQ6AEwAXoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22where%20plato%22%20aristotle&f=false

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On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 8:39:46 AM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

According to this:

- According to Plato, reality exists away from the material world, within the world of forms, which can only be viewed with the eye of the mind. Reality, for Aristotle, was right here in this world. It was Aristotle’s elevation of the material realm that launched what we think of as science.

https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/how-plato-and-aristotle-influenced-scientific-thought/#:~:text=According%20to%20Plato%2C%20reality%20exists,we%20think%20of%20as%20science.

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On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 8:39:46 AM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

- According to Plato, reality exists away from the material world, within the world of forms, which can only be viewed with the eye of the mind. Reality, for Aristotle, was right here in this world. It was Aristotle’s elevation of the material realm that launched what we think of as science.
https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/how-plato-and-aristotle-influenced-scientific-thought/#:~:text=According%20to%20Plato%2C%20reality%20exists,we%20think%20of%20as%20science.

According to this:

- Unlike Plato who believes that only philosophers are capable of determining truth, Aristotle maintains that every human, by nature, has the capability of reason.

http://www.studyworld.com/studyworld_studynotes/novelguide/thepolitics/themeanalysis.html

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On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 8:39:46 AM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

- According to Plato, reality exists away from the material world, within the world of forms, which can only be viewed with the eye of the mind. Reality, for Aristotle, was right here in this world. It was Aristotle’s elevation of the material realm that launched what we think of as science.
https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/how-plato-and-aristotle-influenced-scientific-thought/#:~:text=According%20to%20Plato%2C%20reality%20exists,we%20think%20of%20as%20science.

That source also says:

- Unlike Socrates and Plato, his teachers, Aristotle doesn't try to conceptualize a perfect governmental system. He knows that no human creation can be without at least minor faults. He simply strives for the best system possible. Aristotle also understands that not every inhabitant of the polis can achieve goodness. Only true citizens, those "who [share] in the administration of justice and in the holding of office," can find good, or happy lives.

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On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 8:39:46 AM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

- According to Plato, reality exists away from the material world, within the world of forms, which can only be viewed with the eye of the mind. Reality, for Aristotle, was right here in this world. It was Aristotle’s elevation of the material realm that launched what we think of as science.
https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/how-plato-and-aristotle-influenced-scientific-thought/#:~:text=According%20to%20Plato%2C%20reality%20exists,we%20think%20of%20as%20science.

- Unlike Socrates and Plato, his teachers, Aristotle doesn't try to conceptualize a perfect governmental system. He knows that no human creation can be without at least minor faults. He simply strives for the best system possible. Aristotle also understands that not every inhabitant of the polis can achieve goodness. Only true citizens, those "who [share] in the administration of justice and in the holding of office," can find good, or happy lives.

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On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 8:39:46 AM UTC-10,

Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

- According to Plato, reality exists away from the material world, within the world of forms, which can only be viewed with the eye of the mind. Reality, for Aristotle, was right here in this world. It was Aristotle’s elevation of the material realm that launched what we think of as science.
https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/how-plato-and-aristotle-influenced-scientific-thought/#:~:text=According%20to%20Plato%2C%20reality%20exists,we%20think%20of%20as%20science.

- Unlike Socrates and Plato, his teachers, Aristotle doesn't try to conceptualize a perfect governmental system. He knows that no human creation can be without at least minor faults. He simply strives for the best system possible. Aristotle also understands that not every inhabitant of the polis can achieve goodness. Only true citizens, those "who [share] in the administration of justice and in the holding of office," can find good, or happy lives.

That source also says:

- In general, his ideas contrast with Plato in that Aristotle is an empiricist- he understands the importance of active observation to determine the truth. Plato, on the other hand, believes that mere logical inference can establish ideal reality. On the whole, Aristotle is more educated in the differing constitutions of separate governments. From these observations, he establishes his world view. Plato, to contrast, spends most of his time in Athens, remaining an ivory-tower critic. Aristotle's idea of telos, which allows for human flexibility, contrasts sharply with Plato's idea of the Forms, which are unchanging and only understood by philosophers.

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

- Great steps in human progress are made by things that don't work the way philosophy thought they should. If things always worked the way they should, you could write the history of the world from now on. But they don't, and it is those deviations from the normal that make human progress.

Charles Kettering

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Post by g***@gmail.com
Who was more anti-auhority?
- The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.
Thomas Huxley

Could this concerning THE QUIET AMERICAN also apply to the difference between Plato and Aristotle?:

The insufficiency of abstract thinking

- Fowler frequently criticizes Pyle’s abstract thinking for its tendency to oversimplify the complexity of the real world. Whereas Pyle gets his information from books of political theory, as a journalist, Fowler commits himself to collecting concrete facts. He thus forms his understanding of Vietnam, its people, and its political conflict from the ground up rather than from the top down. As Fowler insists again and again, too much abstraction reduces complex realities to seemingly simple truths. This reduction proves dangerous because it leads one to believe that a complex problem can be solved with a straightforward solution. Fowler sees this belief as the central problem of Pyle’s Third Force theory. Whereas Pyle thinks that democracy will solve Vietnam’s problems, Fowler often reminds him that democracies often do not live up to their own ideals. Abstraction enables hasty decision-making and a rushing into action that can have bad consequences. Honoring concrete facts, though more complicated and requiring time for thinking and analysis, is necessary to understand how things really work.

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/the-quiet-american/themes/