Plural Form of "Ghazal"?

[NYC XYZ]

Hi, All:

What is the plural form of "ghazal"? I mean, as "transliterated"
(wrong term, I'm sure) in English -- "ghazale," "ghazalen," what?

It is a Persian poetic form whose name is from the Arabic for "boy-girl
talk," I understand.

Excuse the x-posting, but I thought a wider "inter-disciplinary" net
might help.

(Of course, I've not been lucky with search engines.)


TIA!!!!

[Pacifist]

In Persian it is "Ghazal-haa". (Haa being a suffix that makes the
singular into plural)

This is a Persian web site with plenty of "Ghazal-haa", in case you can
read the lingo.

http://www.bamdad.org/~digilib/index.php?page=view&mod=classicpoems&obj=part&id=28

P

[peace2005]

The word Ghazal is Arabic from Persian word qasida,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazal

The plural form (the one used the most for this word, I think) is
Ghazaliat (as in Ghazaliat-e Hafez, Sadi, Molavi..), we can also use the
Farsi plural rule (even on non-Farsi words) by adding "haa at the end of
the word (Ghazal-haa)

More on Persian Poetry

http://www.bestirantravel.com/culture/poetry/poetry.html

Post by NYC XYZ
What is the plural form of "ghazal"? I mean, as "transliterated"
(wrong term, I'm sure) in English -- "ghazale," "ghazalen," what?
It is a Persian poetic form whose name is from the Arabic for "boy-girl
talk," I understand.
Excuse the x-posting, but I thought a wider "inter-disciplinary" net
might help.
(Of course, I've not been lucky with search engines.)
TIA!!!!

[Pacifist]

Post by peace2005
The word Ghazal is Arabic from Persian word qasida

The above bit does not sound correct. Qasida (Ghasideh in Farsi) is
itself Arabic and another form of poetry to ghazal.
Also Ghazal is writen with "ghein" and "z" (with a dot above), whereas
"Ghasideh" is written with "ghaaf" and "saad". Iranians pronounce the
ghein and Ghaaf as the same, but not Arabs.

P

[peace2005]

I was going with britanica and wikipedia for spelling. You are right
that in Farsi , we pronounce it Ghasideh.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9062108

Ghasideh is older than Ghazal and it seem Ghazal is a derived from
Ghasideh (and not the same word).
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9036671?query=ghazal&ct=

(the Britanica definition of Ghazal talks about Arabian Ghazals and does
NOT even mention Persian Ghazals !, a big mistake / omission in my view)

I don't know the Persian roots of these words specially since it seems
these words have slightly different meanings among different cultures in
Middle East. This would be a good project for an expert (Poetry,
language, history) in SCI to research and publish her/his findings in
the Farsi Wikipedia.

http://fa.wikipedia.org/

Post by Pacifist

Post by peace2005
The word Ghazal is Arabic from Persian word qasida

The above bit does not sound correct. Qasida (Ghasideh in Farsi) is
itself Arabic and another form of poetry to ghazal.
Also Ghazal is writen with "ghein" and "z" (with a dot above), whereas
"Ghasideh" is written with "ghaaf" and "saad". Iranians pronounce the
ghein and Ghaaf as the same, but not Arabs.
P

[Pacifist]

See what I found!!:

http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D8%B2%D9%84

P

[Pacifist]

And this on Ghasideh:

http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%82%D8%B5%DB%8C%D8%AF%D9%87

P

[peace2005]

Good information (had not heard that word before), It seems that page
may still need more information to be completed. fa.wikipedia needs more
entries from Iranian experts and volunteers, with all the educated and
professional people in Iran and outside

Post by Pacifist
http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D8%B2%D9%84
P

[Pacifist]

I am a bit uneasy about the word "chaameh" mentioned in that article.
I had heard of "chakaameh" (which according to farsidic.com means
"ghasideh"). Chaameh may be another form of it or just a misprint.


P

[peace2005]

These are the kinds of discrepancies that we need to fix or assign to
someone (expert) to correct. There is a saying in many large US
companies "if you find a problem you own it" (solve it or pass to
someone who knows how to solve it), I don't know who we can pass this to

Post by Pacifist
I am a bit uneasy about the word "chaameh" mentioned in that article.
I had heard of "chakaameh" (which according to farsidic.com means
"ghasideh"). Chaameh may be another form of it or just a misprint.
P

[l***@yahoo.com]

Post by NYC XYZ
What is the plural form of "ghazal"? I mean, as "transliterated"
(wrong term, I'm sure) in English -- "ghazale," "ghazalen," what?

In Urdu, "GhazaleN" would be one of the (several) correct (and
commonly used) plurals of "Ghazal". With an iKhfaa-e nuun at
the end---the nuun at the end would be written without the dot,
and would be nasalized in pronunciation.

(In Urdu) "Ghazaliyaat" is also correct and used, and "Ghazal-haa"
is (IMHO) also correct but hardly ever used in practice.

Hope that helps!

Late L